That Early Childhood Nerd

Lisa Murphy is back for another fun conversation about stuff that’s on her mind. And it’s brilliant stuff! If you are wondering what “readiness is a rock pile” means, or what Lisa’s murder board might look like, you’ll love this conversation.
Lisa’s just released a new edition of her important book Lisa Murphy on Play: The Foundation of Children’s Learning. Order your copy today! https://www.redleafpress.org/Lisa-Murphy-on-Play-3rd-Edition-The-Foundation-of-Childrens-Learning-P3195.aspx
Order Heather’s book, Using Schema Play Theory to Advocate for Free Play in Early Childhood, here: https://www.tcpress.com/products/using-schema-play-theory-to-advocate-for-free-play-in-early-childhood_9780807783177
Join our new Patreon community! For just $5 a month you can support all the Early Childhood Nerdwork podcasts AND join our Discord server to chat with the hosts and others who are working for children, their families, and their teachers: https://www.patreon.com/cw/EarlyChildhoodNerdworkbyThatEarlyChildhoodNerd
Thanks for listening!

Who is really the “customer” in early childhood programs? How do we genuinely respect families and their experiences while still maintaining strong systems, standards, and accountability? And what does customer service look like in a sector grounded in care, ethics, and community responsibility—not retail models?
Professor and wonderer Robin Landals-Hill joins host Heather Bernt-Santy for a conversation centered on these questions, and whether the customer is really “always right.”
Order Heather’s book, Using Schema Play Theory to Advocate for Free Play in Early Childhood, here: https://www.tcpress.com/products/using-schema-play-theory-to-advocate-for-free-play-in-early-childhood_9780807783177
Join our new Patreon community! For just $5 a month you can support all the Early Childhood Nerdwork podcasts AND join our Discord server to chat with the hosts and others who are working for children, their families, and their teachers: https://www.patreon.com/cw/EarlyChildhoodNerdworkbyThatEarlyChildhoodNerd
Thanks for listening!

What if the words we use during toilet learning could help children feel capable, respected, and empowered? In this episode, host Heather Bernt-Santy talks with Jen Marcus, author of Potty Pedagogy: Guiding Children through Toileting with Language that Empowers about the role word choice and other considerations plays in one of the most personal parts of caring for children.
Find Jen's article here: https://www.naeyc.org/resources/pubs/vop/winter2025/guiding-children-through-toileting
Jen would love to hear from you! You can email her at marcus.l.jennifer3333@gmail.com.
Order Heather’s book, Using Schema Play Theory to Advocate for Free Play in Early Childhood, here: https://www.tcpress.com/products/using-schema-play-theory-to-advocate-for-free-play-in-early-childhood_9780807783177
Join our new Patreon community! For just $5 a month you can support all the Early Childhood Nerdwork podcasts AND join our Discord server to chat with the hosts and others who are working for children, their families, and their teachers: https://www.patreon.com/cw/EarlyChildhoodNerdworkbyThatEarlyChildhoodNerd
Thanks for listening!

I don’t know about you, but this Nerd loves Lisa Murphy!
So it was so fun to have her say, “I keep a list of topics and questions that I want to pod about!”
Here’s the first episode of what we’re calling “Lisa Murphy’s Grab Bag,” an ongoing series of episodes where Lisa brings that list to That Early Childhood Nerd.
Included in this conversation:
An off hand remark at a nail salon that left Lisa wondering, “do children have freedom to ‘not like someone’s tone’?”
If you were a child in your own class today, would you want to come back tomorrow?
How do Heather and Lisa feel about having to make dinner decisions?
Who do you have in your life that stretches your adult zone of proximal development?
Is it kinder to be direct?
Why do toddlers pick their noses and why don’t we all already know the answer?
Which 80’s soaps did you watch and why?
Lots of heart, lots of laughs, and lots of Lisa and Heather—enjoy!
Order the latest edition of Lisa’s PLAY book here: https://www.redleafpress.org/Lisa-Murphy-on-Play-3rd-Edition-The-Foundation-of-Childrens-Learning-P3195.aspx
Order Heather’s book, Using Schema Play Theory to Advocate for Free Play in Early Childhood, here: https://www.tcpress.com/products/using-schema-play-theory-to-advocate-for-free-play-in-early-childhood_9780807783177
Join our new Patreon community! For just $5 a month you can support all the Early Childhood Nerdwork podcasts AND join our Discord server to chat with the hosts and others who are working for children, their families, and their teachers: https://www.patreon.com/cw/EarlyChildhoodNerdworkbyThatEarlyChildhoodNerd
Thanks for listening!

One of host Heather Bernt-Santy’s favorite things is to find someone who takes something she is instinctively feeling and brilliantly putting that feeling into words. In this episode, her guest Amy Chiu has done just that.
Amy joins the show to talk about how easy it can be for early childhood practitioners to take the tools we have in our toolbox and use them as tactics for control or compliance. Listen to find out what she means when she says:
Tools become tactics when the goal shifts from understanding children to controlling outcomes
Taking deep breaths becomes a tactic when a child is expected to “calm down” on command
Scaffolding becomes a tactic when participation matters more than agency
Visual schedules become tactics when they leave no room for humanity, flexibility, or individual rhythms
Find more of Amy’s work at www.theworkofplay.com
 
Order Heather’s book, Using Schema Play Theory to Advocate for Free Play in Early Childhood, here: https://www.tcpress.com/products/using-schema-play-theory-to-advocate-for-free-play-in-early-childhood_9780807783177
Join our new Patreon community! For just $5 a month you can support all the Early Childhood Nerdwork podcasts AND join our Discord server to chat with the hosts and others who are working for children, their families, and their teachers: https://www.patreon.com/cw/EarlyChildhoodNerdworkbyThatEarlyChildhoodNerd
Thanks for listening!

Could child developmental theories be ageist, encouraging us to see only children’s deficits?
This week host Heather Bernt-Santy discusses this question with Dr. Jennifer Fane, co-author of the book The Sociology of Early Childhood: Young Children’s Lives and Worlds.
The conversation begins with this quote from the book: “We believe that child development theories are often ageist, because they carry an implicit assumption that we begin life as deficient, and get better, wiser, and more capable as we get older. Such theories reassure adults that they are capable, but are often very damaging to young children, who are left feeling incapable, and so encourage passivity and helplessness. Many of these developmental theories have led to a deficit approach to education, in which educators spend most of their time focusing on what young children cannot do (by using developmental checklists) rather than what they enjoy or do well. A less ageist perspective suggests babies enter the world capable of absorbing knowledge and drawing conclusions at a rapid pace. As we age, we acquire more knowledge and experience, but we also slow in the rate we can learn, and become more limited in our creativity and curiosity.”
Find the book here: https://a.co/d/0dEf1MdP
Find more of Dr. Fane’s work here: https://www.signal49.ca/team-members/jennifer-fane/
 
Order Heather’s book, Using Schema Play Theory to Advocate for Free Play in Early Childhood, here: https://www.tcpress.com/products/using-schema-play-theory-to-advocate-for-free-play-in-early-childhood_9780807783177
Join our new Patreon community! For just $5 a month you can support all the Early Childhood Nerdwork podcasts AND join our Discord server to chat with the hosts and others who are working for children, their families, and their teachers: https://www.patreon.com/cw/EarlyChildhoodNerdworkbyThatEarlyChildhoodNerd
Thanks for listening!

In a 2026 article co-written with Brianne Kramer and Clint Broadbent, Denisha Jones explores the idea of moral injury in our work in the early childhood profession, writing, ‘Many teachers view their profession as a calling, so they take their work as a personal mission to educate students. Because of this, it is a moral affront to teachers to face daily ‘circumstances that challenge their moral conscience, vocational identity, and the values that got them into teaching in the first place’ (Keefe-Perry, 2018). Santoro (2011) theorized about moral injury by asking ‘What happens when experienced teachers who are fueled by the moral dimension of teaching find they can no longer access the moral rewards embedded in their work?’ Santoro goes on to (2011) argue the moral and ethical dimensions of teaching involve both required and prohibited practices (moral dimensions) and teachers' recognition that their work is in service to a better world (ethical dimensions). Often these are inseparable so that if a teacher is repeatedly forced to do something that they believe is harmful to their students, they may feel they are bad at their job or their job is bad for the world (Santoro, 2011). This creates a moral injury that plagues teachers daily.”
In our conversation in this episode, Denisha defines moral injury and explains how it may be more useful to reframe our current “burnout” conversation as moral injury.
Read The Intensification of Moral Injury in Teachers During the Pandemic here: https://ices.library.ubc.ca/index.php/workplace/article/view/187167
Check out Denisha’s new project the Play Science Institute here: https://playscience.org/
 
Order Heather’s book, Using Schema Play Theory to Advocate for Free Play in Early Childhood, here: https://www.tcpress.com/products/using-schema-play-theory-to-advocate-for-free-play-in-early-childhood_9780807783177
Join our new Patreon community! For just $5 a month you can support all the Early Childhood Nerdwork podcasts AND join our Discord server to chat with the hosts and others who are working for children, their families, and their teachers: https://www.patreon.com/cw/EarlyChildhoodNerdworkbyThatEarlyChildhoodNerd
Thanks for listening!

In this episode, host Heather Bernt-Santy is joined by Kylie Cooper, Jamie Bonczyk, and Lucy Recio to discuss their recent Exchange article titled Reclaiming Our Legacy of Imagining and Building Worlds: Countering Fascism. 
Jamie shares: 
The article discussed in this episode grew out of a conversation that began in January 2025. Listeners can follow the evolution of these ideas through the following articles from Exchange Magazine:
Embodied Advocacy
Taking Stock: Is Personal Grief the Invisible Companion Informing How You Show Up?
What’s at Stake? Professional Loss and Grief in Early Care and Education Workplaces
Taking Action: Channeling Collective Grief Towards Social Justice and Change
To explore these articles and additional resources, begin a two-week free trial of Exchange Press or receive 50% off an Exchange Community Membership with the promotional code FRIEND50.
Connect with Jamie Bonczyk at LinkedIn and Instagram
Find Lucy here: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lucyrecio/
Find more about Kylie and her work here: https://www.riseearlylearningcenter.org/
And find the article here: https://hub.exchangepress.com/articles-on-demand/86844/
Order Heather’s book, Using Schema Play Theory to Advocate for Free Play in Early Childhood, here: https://www.tcpress.com/products/using-schema-play-theory-to-advocate-for-free-play-in-early-childhood_9780807783177
Join our new Patreon community! For just $5 a month you can support all the Early Childhood Nerdwork podcasts AND join our Discord server to chat with the hosts and others who are working for children, their families, and their teachers: https://www.patreon.com/cw/EarlyChildhoodNerdworkbyThatEarlyChildhoodNerd
Thanks for listening!

This week, our guest is Amy Reyes-Hauff, ECE consultant and outdoor play advocate, who recently published the book Why Did They Do That? It's Not a Behavior Problem, It's a Biological Reaction. 
Why Did They Do That reframes the tumultuous preschool years (3-5) as a period of neurological renovation rather than a series of behavior problems. By explaining the biological gap between the fully developed, emotional "downstairs brain" (the amygdala) and the under-construction, logical "upstairs brain" (the prefrontal cortex).
Order Amy's book here: https://a.co/d/0iXTs4sy
Order Heather’s book, Using Schema Play Theory to Advocate for Free Play in Early Childhood, here: https://www.tcpress.com/products/using-schema-play-theory-to-advocate-for-free-play-in-early-childhood_9780807783177
Join our new Patreon community! For just $5 a month you can support all the Early Childhood Nerdwork podcasts AND join our Discord server to chat with the hosts and others who are working for children, their families, and their teachers: https://www.patreon.com/cw/EarlyChildhoodNerdworkbyThatEarlyChildhoodNerd
Thanks for listening!

What is the adult's role if children are allowed to "just play?" It's a question host Heather Bernt-Santy hears often as she talks with early childhood practitioners. Thank goodness Suzanne Axelsson has done a lot of thinking and writing about it!
In a post in her Substack, Suzanne writes about play and adult roles. When is it play and what can we do to support it? How can we learn to be clear and authentic about what is true play and adult attempts at teaching? 
Read the post here: https://suzanneaxelsson.substack.com/p/view-on-play-and-adult-roles
Order Heather’s book, Using Schema Play Theory to Advocate for Free Play in Early Childhood, here: https://www.tcpress.com/products/using-schema-play-theory-to-advocate-for-free-play-in-early-childhood_9780807783177
Join our new Patreon community! For just $5 a month you can support all the Early Childhood Nerdwork podcasts AND join our Discord server to chat with the hosts and others who are working for children, their families, and their teachers: https://www.patreon.com/cw/EarlyChildhoodNerdworkbyThatEarlyChildhoodNerd
Thanks for listening!